Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Apr 30, 2011 9:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

So I got home yesterday from doing the brite work on a 64' Sculley out in Montauk, and I was quite pleased to find the new Road Trips release in the mailbox. I had been looking forward to this one, mainly for the 12/6/73 bonus material (though I'm mortified that Here Comes Sunshine was not included).

Perhaps my expectations were too high, but I find the two Denver performances rather unexciting. The pace of these shows is a bit sluggish and the jamming never really takes off. I think a number of performances from this period are more compelling.

But after several listens through the jam sequences last night and today, I have to say that I'm somewhat disapointed in the relatively lifeless mixing job on this release. The keyboard levels are much too high and the mix lacks punch. I was distressed enough to do an A/B comparison between the official release bonus disc and sbd.miller.105560.flac16 (12/6/73), and I find Charlie's soundboard remaster has greater brilliance and is more enjoyable.

Anyone get their "junk" in the mailbox yet?

What are your thoughts about the keyboard heavy mixing on this release?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 12, 2011 10:49am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Mine arrived while i was out of the country and my lovely wife conveniently forgot to mention it when i got back so i am only getting around to listening to it today. I have listened to about half of the RT and i think the sound is pretty good. I have always liked the second set of this show so I am not disappointed by what I hear. I did not bother with the subscription since I only purchase about half the RT releases based on my tastes and figured that meant 2 of the releases would become part of my coaster collection. Didn't think a single bonus disc could make up for that. Sorry to hear that it is not up to your standards. However I am now curious, did you listen to the '88 release or let Mason use it as a chew toy?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: May 12, 2011 4:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Hi Larry,

I have not listened to Road Trips IV/2 yet. It sits on the shelf between The Big Rock Pow Wow (which I truly enjoy inspite of the sloppy play that you have pointed out) and the recent release of the performances from '73 in Denver, which I have listened to quite a bit. Not among my favorite sets from '73, but enjoyable nonetheless. My disapointment with the mix is with the bonus disc.

Glad you enjoyed the George V. Did you see Gericault's Raft of the Medusa when you were at the Louvre? Be sure to stay at the Hassler for a similar stay the next time you are in Rome. Please say hello to Rose for me. Looking forward to seing you when you are in NY this Fall.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 12, 2011 6:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Yes on the raft, a moving painting of what i gather was a controversial subject at the time. I hope to make it to Rome some day although not immediately on the horizon.

I have enjoyed the latest RT pick as well although the recent discussion of DP2 has had my attention focused on that set. Funny how '71 is constantly dinged for the lack of jamming yet i think my two of my favorite Dark Star jams might be from that very year. The beautiful jam on 2-18 and the tighten up jam on 10-31 would be stiff competition for best two jams of any vintage.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Death&Mercy Date: Apr 30, 2011 5:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Cliff,

I thought I liked it first time around, but Denver 11/21 is not a particularly strong show. Sloppy at times, dull at others. Not a ton of highlights for me, though the Big RR is cool, and the GDTRFB is par for the season, which means good. Very nice set-list though, which should keep this thing in the rotation for a while.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bear06460 Date: May 6, 2011 3:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

dull show? are you missing the entire second set? this is what defined the dead during this period. to me this is one of the best sets of intertwining songs and jams from the early 70s. as for the mix. i can see what you mean on the bonus disc. millers remaster sounds a little bassier. but i havent noticed too much of a difference on 11/21. im still listening though so maybe i will soon enough. from sorting through hundreds of tapes on here i can always tell which ones sound better as im sure most of you can which is why this post started to begin with. either way i think the show itself is pretty dam good.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Apr 30, 2011 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

"...and I find Charlie's soundboard remaster has greater brilliance and is more enjoyable."

i (nor anyone else) needs to toot Charlie's horn, but the fact remains that the gentleman in question has listened to countless hours of live GD, closely and intimately, and very likely knows exactly how things should sound and how to make them sound that way; i.e., he's an expert, and whoever did the recent RT release is probably just some flashy name who looks good in print and knows how to turn a knob or two; so glad i didn't pitch my change into the fountain for this one...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Apr 30, 2011 11:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Though I haven't gotten the discs, it struck me that you apparently have subscribed for the whole year of Road Trips, thus enduring the '88 release & who knows what else, simply for the chance to enjoy the disappointing, lifeless mix of the 12/6/73 bonus sampler!

What makes it even more amusing is that Miller's transfers of 12/6/73 and 11/21/73 both come from CASSETTE>DAT copies of the master reels! Which, theoretically, should have taken some of the sparkle out of the sound...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Apr 30, 2011 12:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Shame on you, LiA, for kicking a man when he's down! Simply having a 1988 GD recording in the house must be galling enough for Cliff.

...or did he score a copy of the Bonus Disc through black-ops channels, without having subscribed, like someone else I know?

And actually cassette transfers can sound brighter than reel originals, but with a hard edge to the extra brightness, reflecting more distortion than information in the upper frequencies. A good example is the Morning Dew from 4-17-69 in Download Series 8, the first half of which is from a cassette master and the second half from a reel master. This may reflect different equalizing of the two parts, to make them sound right together, but the fact remains.

This post was modified by Lou Davenport on 2011-04-30 19:38:57

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: adedhed68 Date: Apr 30, 2011 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Well, I am no audiophile, and while I love and appreciate everything that CM does for all of us, I think this RT sounds outstanding and I am thouroughly enjoying it. Haven't gotten to bonus disk yet.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Tidewater four ten O nine Date: Apr 30, 2011 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

Cliff,

my thoughts/fears on this surround the long-awaited (with still quite a lot of waiting yet to do) Europe '72 box set.

Mention has already been made that one of the preview free downloads seemed to have Keith's piano mixed below sub-optimum level. I hope that 'they' haven't bitten off more than they can chew, with the result being that both the Euro '72 set and other releases in the run-up (like this one - RT IV/3) suffer in the process in the rush to meet the promised release date.

I haven't actually subscribed to RT IV/3 as I'm counting my pennies to make sure there is enough money on the card to cover the Euro '72 box set transaction when the time comes. As soon as RT IV/3 was announced, I 'secured' copies of the shows in question thinking that these will have to do until I get round to buying it at a later date. In view of your comments about the mix, maybe I won't bother, sticking with what I've got.

Best regards,

TW-4-10-0-9

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dudley Dead Date: May 2, 2011 8:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

I too worry that , given the MASIVE amount of work to get these shows ready, will some "autopilot" mixing, and questionable decisions result from the work load . Being a Keith fan, how often have I felt , you couldn't hear him on the tape, so I hope he is not too reduced in the mix !
The new RT sound pretty good to me . I have fairly high end equipment, and I have to say, generally, the newer releases are superior to the early DP's .
Much of the sound quality depends on the condition, original mix, on the tapes .
So, I might have mixed it differently, If I was doing it, but generally I am happy with these discs .
Also, we might quibble about the quality of the shows vs other 73 shows, but ANY 73 is great to me, I am glad they can keep putting stuff out .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Lou Davenport Date: Apr 30, 2011 12:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Road Trips IV/3 mix issues?

I have mine too, and have listened to some of disc 1 and the 11-20 material from disc 3. I've also listened to DS > Eyes from the bonus disc. All just once, though.

I agree that the sound is on the dark side, though it does sound clean and natural to me with good separation of the instruments in space. The keys are high in the mix, but that can't be the fault of the mastering, since the mix on two-track recordings was determined at the concert.

I just now listened to a couple of tracks from DP19 from 10-19-73, which does sound brighter, but I suspect that a lot of the sound energy in the upper frequencies is distortion. Jerry's guitar sound on RT 4/3 is sweeter and sounds more coherent than on DP19. The low end of Phil's bass is more authoritative on RT 4/3.

Maybe the difference owes to the different acoustics of Denver Coliseum vs. the Oklahoma State Fair Arena? Both seat about 10K, but the State Fair Arena may have better acoustics.

Or could it just be the mix the two nights? The drums are higher in the mix on DP19, which could contribute to the brighter sound.

Or did they equalize to boost the high frequencies on DP19, worried that otherwise buyers might complain of a muddy sound (and in doing so reveal more high-end distortion), while their philosophy may since have changed.

I like the performances I've listened to so far. Looks Like Rain from 11-21 is breathtaking, and while the jamming doesn't go very far in Here Comes Sunshine, the ensemble work is nicely put together. Jerry's guitar work on what I've listened to of both nights is sweetly composed. Stella Blue is lovely.

A question: does anyone know what jam they dabble with earlyish in The Other One, before the verse? Not Mind Left Body, which comes towards the end, but something else that's rather complex and I don't think I've heard before.

As to the bonus disc: not only are the keys too loud, but they're outright distorted in places late in Dark Star and into Eyes. I've always felt this Dark Star is a bit of a mess, and celebrated largely for being so long, and my listen last night didn't change my opinion of it. But Eyes has some nice moments.